'Narnia' scholar Devin Brown talks about 'Compass'

Simon McBurney as Fra Pavel, one of the agents of the evil Magisterium in The Golden Compass. Photo by Laurie Sparham, courtesy of New Line Cinema.

One of the major arguments against Philip Pullman and the His Dark Materials trilogy is his reported distaste -- could or could not be putting it mildly, depending on what interviews you read -- for C.S. Lewis's The Chronicles of Narnia. Pullman has been at the center of controversy recently with the opening of The Golden Compass, the first movie based on the trilogy, which some say is anti-Christian.

We just happen to have a noted Lewis scholar in the area in Devin Brown (photo, left). The Asbury College English professor, who is a visiting writer at Transylvania University this year, is the author of Inside Narnia: A Guide to Exploring The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe. His new book, Inside Prince Caspian: A Guide to Exploring the Return to Narnia, is due out Jan 1. The new book is in anticipation of the May 16 release of the second film in Walden Media's Narnia series.

But Compass is the topic du jour, and before the movie opened, I rang up Brown to discuss it. Here's an edited transcript of our chat:

Copious Notes: What do you know about the controversy, and what's your perspective?

Devin Brown: I've read The Golden Compass and I know it pretty well. I have not read the other two, and the reason I stopped reading them was not any inappropriate spirituality that drove me nuts. I just didn't find the reading to be as engaging as other things I might have read. It was fine. I liked it mildly. It wasn't enough to keep me reading, but there was nothing that put me off.

Apparently, a big part of the controversy has to do with the second and third books -- which have not been made into films yet -- which have a little bit more overt anti-church, anti-God sentiment.

So, there are two things you can talk about: Philip Pullman's book of The Golden Compass and then the movie from the book, which is apparently toned down from the book, which wasn't that hot in the first place. And then, there are the next two books, which have not been made into films yet. So, these people are reacting to something that's in a book two or three down the line that has not been made into a movie yet.

My personal view of The Golden Compass is, I didn't see anything objectionable to me. It's set in an alternative universe where a group of evil people called The Magisterium have really taken over the church, and they use kidnapping, assassination, torture and other methods to hold onto their power. The good people in this world are opposed to The Magisterium, and I would guess that good people in our world would be opposed to a group like this as well. So, if there had not been a second or third book, I don't think we'd be having this discussion now . . . There will be a point later where this evil church will become more prominent, and people might say, 'Well, isn't that anti-Christian?' Well, Pullman may be anti-church, and the church he's against is a church we should all be against . . .

I just have to wonder if there aren't some people out there who make a living by being incensed and outraged by certain elements in fiction. That gets them talking points on shows. Then there are some people who find some significance in being terrified for the youth of today and that the Pullman Compass is going to turn them all into -- this is one of the ones I read on the Internet -- 'Satanists and atheists.' Really, I think you're one or the other, because I don't know any atheists who believe in Satan. But this woman I was reading was terrified kids would go to this movie, which she hasn't seen, based on a book she hasn't read, and they'll be turned into Satanists and atheists. I don't see that happening.

CN: It does seem like you can't release a piece of children's literature these days without people getting upset about it for one reason or another.

DB: Then you wonder, what's the real problem? I would say there are obviously people who are afraid of the imagination.

There has been a strain in all religious faiths, including Christianity, that's been afraid of our God-given imaginations. It's a powerful thing, and I suppose there's the extreme case where it gets out of hand. But I think kids are a lot smarter than these people give them credit for being. I don't think there's ever been a young person who read the Harry Potter books and thought, 'Is that real?' They know it's a story . . .

There's this group that thinks people will read about evil in a story and become evil. I suppose if evil is glorified and depicted as cool or fun or exciting, they have a point there. But in the books they typically object to, The Golden Compass included, the evil people are typically creepy, and we don't like them. And the people we like are quite moral.

So people get really upset if they think Pullman, who is an atheist, is attacking their church. But this is an alternate universe, and the church there looks nothing like any church I've seen.

CN: I remember talking to one of the producers of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, which also partially takes place in an alternate universe, and he was saying that the way they saw it, people could take it as Christian allegory, if that's the way they saw it, or they could take it as a fantasy story about good vs. evil. Are these two stories in the same league, in that way?

DB: Pullman has made sort of a reputation for himself in contesting the Narnia stories, and he throws in The Lord of the Rings, too. The fact that he has outright hatred for The Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings trilogy does not in itself make him a bad person; possibly a bad literary critic, but not a bad person. He got a lot of press making outrageous claims about the Narnia books, which really don't hold up, but he got a lot of press.

But now that he has the movies out, he's sort of playing down his atheism and playing down his anti-church thing, calling it anti-totalitarianism, instead.  But I don't really think that's a cop out. The thing that he's against in his books isn't the church. It's a group of despots that have banded together to grab a hold of power. There's certainly nothing Christian about them . . .

CN: So, I'm taking it, from what you're saying, that you don't quite see the outrage here.

DB: Well, as with any movie, I would say people have the right to not see it. That's fine. And maybe they'll decide they don't want their children to go see it. And that's fine. On the other hand, I'd say people who want to see the film should do so, and decide for themselves if there's anything anti-Christian about it. And what if there is? I don't think there's anything anti-Christian in this one, though in the later books, there might be something. In the third book, they come upon God, and he's a wimp, and they kill him. He's not the God we know. He's some other god. So I don't know what you'd say about that. I'm not too fond of the god they find in the trilogy either.

So let's say there is something negative. You can say, 'I'm not going to support this kind of work. I'm not going to purchase a ticket,' or someone might say, 'I want to know everything there is to know about it. I want to be able to speak accurately about it, and how my beliefs differ from what is on the screen.' I am certainly more of the second kind. I want to read Bertrand Russell's Why I'm Not a Christian, I want to read Sigmund Freud's The Future of an Illusion, and be able to discuss how and why I might disagree with them.

I don't think Christians have anything to fear from Freud or Marx, and certainly not Philip Pullman.

~ Here's a link to Amy Wilson's Dec. 2 story about how Central Kentucky schools and churches have been responding to The Golden Compass.

Comments

[GodInterview Mike]

Very interesting. I have read all three Pullman books, aloud, to my 9-year old son; we also saw the movie. To me, Mr. Pullman seems to be strongly opposed to the fact that a lot of evil deeds are done by folks who call themself "Christian". IMHO, the problem with all organised religion is that it gets MISUSED as an instrument of power - here I totally agree with Mr. Pullman. Sure, those poor people who have given up their own free judgement will be uncomfortable with "The Golden Compass".

There is an alternative, a more esoteric spirituality. Take for instance the "Conversations With God" books by Neale Walsch. There's even a screensaver inspired by these books, found at: www.dreaminterviewwithgod.com

[Dan Butts]

I have known Devin since we were teenagers. The one thing I have always liked about him was the way he spoke and wrote. He never talked above your head and he always wrote what he felt in plain and simple terms that every one could understand and relate to. Considering he has had a 4.0 grade average since he began school and if they had higher averages his would still be at the top, the man has never made me or any one else I know, feel beneath him. You can take him at his word and know that it is spoken from the heart. I was honored many years ago when he wrote a poem about me. Danny Lonely, Danny Wild. Thank you Devin for being my friend.

[Chris]

Mr. Brooks

a) accusing someone of trying to deceitfully indoctinate children is fear mongering any way you slice it. That's not lying, that's calling a spade a spade.

b)The ability to reread your blather on this post doesn't make your statement true. Talk about a logical fallacy. I can read Freud (or see a movie) and be acutely aware of his (or Pullman's) position on Religion and still have my own faith and beliefs. Are you telling me I don't have that ability?

Have you ever read Freud? What makes you an expert on its perils to Christianity if you don't read such drivel? Or have you read it, and deemed it unworthy for other Christians to read in order to protect them and their faith. Do you claim to have such an unshakeable faith that you can read such works and not be in danger! I can see why Pullman bothers you so much, he's talking directly at people like yourself.

Sadly, there is not much point in continuing this debate. It's not possible to debate the merits of something with someone who thinks we shouldn't challenge our faith to begin with.

Rich Copley has covered this topic superbly with his article and blog post. Nice work, Rich!

[Jack Brooks]

Rick and Nominal's posts are brilliant examples of how someone can evade AND lie at the same time. Which is pretty poor strategy, since people can read my original post and see that (a) there's not a bit of fear-mongering, just harsh criticism; (b) My statement that anyone who claims that Christianity should find nothing objectionable in Freudianism or Marxism must be ignorant of all three is a true statement; (c) but let me add "C", which is: Atheism is irrationality posing as logic, and magic pretending to be science. I urge people to reject these books and this movie for the same reason I urge people not to the Ebola virus. It would be wrong not to raise an alarm, no matter how many jeers spring up.

So if you don't think well of Stalin's gulags, the slaughter of the students of Tienemmen Square, the piles of human skulls in the killing fields of the Khmer Rouge, the stinking prisons of Castro, and the idiot dictatorship of Hugo Chavez, then don't support Phillip Pullman or the Golden Compass either, since he preaches the atheism that they all put into action!

[Jes]

DB's comment "the church he's against is a church we should all be against," is true. Being against this church in the movie is no more anti-christian than being against the Westboro Baptist Church for their hate.

The problem I have with the book (and movie) is that it is a poor work riding the coat tails of far superior fantasy novels that have been made into movies recently.

[Rick St. Peter]

Mr. Brooks-

I would ask why a book that preaches "atheism" is considered "hateful" to those of Christian beliefs? Do you feel that "The Passion of the Christ" (talk about "torture porn") is "hateful" to non-Christians? Freud and Marx have avowedly un-Christian beliefs...to that I say, "So what?!?" Don't read them...Anyone who can have their faith shaken or destroyed by reading a book or seeing a movie doesn't have much faith to begin with... I also think Phillip Pullman overtly stating his belief or lack of belief is one of the worst examples of "deceitful intent" I have ever heard of. You would think someone who wanted to indoctrinate your already brainwashed kids would do so in a bit more stealthy manner than say, readily admitting to their own beliefs and ideas...Mr. Pullman's deceitful intent is about as deceitful as the Creation Museum...speaking of ridiculous!

Peace
Rick St. Peter

[Chris]

Congratulations to the Mr. Brooks' of the world. They've likely done a sufficient enough job so far of fear mongering to ensure the rest of the series won't be made into movies. Well done sir.

The worst of your comment was to call into question the level of commitment one has to their faith on the basis of what they find "questionable", as if the act of reading the work itself ingrains an impurity that the reader can't cleanse through some sort of self-reflection as to whether or not it is "questionable". Fortunately, we have you here to tell us.

--Nominally Adherent Christian

[Heather]

Rich, I'm so glad you tackled this topic; last week I tried (again) to read The Golden Compass so I could see what all the fuss was about.

Trouble is, I barely got through the second chapter before falling asleep. Which is exactly one chapter further than I got the first time I tried to read it.

Forget the atheism issue; I'd be a lot more worried that my kids would conclude that reading in general is boring after slogging through that ponderous pile of steampunk.

[Old Blue Eyes]

How are the public schools here in Fayette County dealing with this issue? Is it really a problem?

Rich replies: Amy Wilson wrote about the schools issue in the Dec. 2 Herald-Leader. There's a link to that story at the bottom of this post. Here's the graph about Fayette:

"Jack Hayes, director of student achievement for Fayette County schools, says his office has not received any complaints about the book and that any decision about pulling a book would not be the district's but the individual school's."

The degree to which it is an issue seems to vary from place to place, and with the movie having a less-than-stellar opening weekend, it is an issue that may fade fairly quickly.

[S, Combs]

I haven't read the book, but did see the movie. Though I wasn't wowed by it, I found it enjoyable and viewed it as the good vs. evil of childhood fairy tales. Actually, I saw it more as a commmentary on the molding of minds, the suppression of knowledge and imagination, and how this leads to indecision and free will. Maybe it's really a thinking society that these people fear.

[Jack Brooks]

The three books should be taken as a three parts of a single unit. Just because the most hate-filled portions of the series don't emerge in book 1 doesn't absolve book 1 of the atheistic hatefulness of the complete series.

This principle is no different from those who raise questions about Narnia because of the odd, somewhat distasteful depiction of Eastern foreigners in The Horse and His Boy.

Devin Brown certainly sanitizes Phillip Pullman's words and stated agenda -- and then sets up some insulting straw men, as if everyone critical of the series is a hysterical woman with irrational fears.

Brown also misrepresents people's concerns. This isn't about adults responding to the book or the movie. It's about the deceitful intent of this series to indoctrinate children under the guise of a LOTR-type fantasy.

Anyone who believes that there's nothing spiritually objectionable in Sigmund Freud or Karl Marx is either ignorant of the Christian faith (and/or of Freud, and Marx), or only a nominal adherent of the Christian faith.